Coaching The Whole Player: Blueprint for Success at Washburn | Brett Ballard

They're all really good players, so I'm not trying to discount that, but that was crazy we want to learn how to dunk. Well, we do have the lower goals, so we can do that. No invite to the catfight.

No, invite bro. That's unbelievable If you sponsor.

She's a big podcaster, almost as big as this one. Close Coach Brent Ballard, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. Thanks for having me. I uh, I want to just shout you guys out. I appreciate what you guys are doing for topeka. Um, I'm a big believer that you get whatever you look for in life, and so I think if you look for positive things, then positive you'll find positive things, I think.

If you look for negative life, and so I think if you look for positive things, then positive you'll find positive things, I think if you look for negative things, and you know, especially on social media, if you look for them, and so what you guys are doing for Topeka just you know, putting a positive light out there and bringing people in that are doing great things in our community like that's big for us and I and I I appreciate that. I listen to a lot of your podcasts. You guys are doing a great job with that, so I'm happy to be on here and appreciate what you guys are doing for our city. Thanks, man.

Thank you so much.

He's one of our 10 followers. That's right. Come on, let's go.

Let's go. So you're you're, obviously you're the head coach at Washburn basketball here in Topeka, Kansas. You guys had an incredible season this last season. You've been building an incredible program. Do you want to just give a quick like highlight reel on your background, how you came to be head coach and yeah, yeah.

So I grew up in Hutchinson, kansas, and actually went to junior college out of there, at a, at a Hutch that's kind of what level I got recruited to. And then I after junior college I was getting recruited by division ones and division twos at NAIAs. I didn't really know what direction I wanted to go. I really wanted to coach and teach. So I got a connection to KU through my junior college coaches and I got an opportunity to be at a preferred walk on there. So I went to Kansas and played for coach Williams and really went. I was a KU fan growing up. Like it was like a dream scenario for me and I really went, more than anything because I knew I was going to learn from Coach Williams and then hopefully take that into being a great high school coach. Oh wow, and use those experiences for that. I was fortunate up there. I got on scholarship, got to play some which was awesome and played on a Final Four team there and had an incredible experience.

That's so cool.

Still planning on really like going. I was a secondary education major, still planning on going into teaching, and Coach Williams left right after my senior year year. After my senior year he left for North Carolina and Coach Self came in. So I went and met with Coach Self because I was like, well, maybe I could try to. I was kind of just really trying to delay the real world more than anything. Like I was like how can I like put off like student teaching and the real world as long as possible? Not really even like with the plan of being a college coach. But I went in and met with coach self and he didn't really have a spot but he was like you could volunteer if you want. I was like, all right. So I ended up volunteering my first year for him, like just doing video stuff and and and and odds and ends around the office. And, um, then second year I got the full-time video spot, was with him for seven years in an op spot video spot. That was incredible. It was there in 2008,. We won the national championship and so I played for coach Williams and then I'm learning from coach self. So like two, probably two of the top 10 college basketball coaches of all time or top 15 or whatever rank. I mean top 20 for sure and um, so I was really blessed. Um, boom, boom, boom. I won't go through the whole thing, but ended up, um, getting opportunity to come back here and be the head coach at Washburn university. Um and uh, I knew about Washburn growing up, just being a Kansas guy. Um knew it'd be a hard job to get, but it was very fortunate to get the job and just just finished year eight.

I think a couple of things that last year was, and I and I'm sure we'll get into last year a little bit. Last year was an elite year and very, very special. I do sometimes feel like I have to. Maybe I don't know if defense the right word, but I want to make sure the guys that came before that are respected. Like we'd been to five national tournaments out of the seven years that we had a tournament, wow. So in Division II you have regions. There's eight regions. Okay, they're going to take eight teams per region. We're in the toughest region in basketball and in some other sports in the country the toughest region in basketball and in some other sports in the country. So if you make the eight out of our region, you to the NCAA tournament. You have had a in our region. That means you've had a special year. So we've been there five out of the out of the seven, so we've had some really good teams here before.

I think sometimes people are like, oh man, you guys are just good this year Cause we got a little more notoriety, and I understand that. But, like, we've been pretty good and I don't say that for me. I just I never want our guys that came before just to feel disrespected because they've done a lot. Like we competed for MIAA championships, won an MIAA conference tournament championship, played in NCAA tournament, won the NCAA tournament games. So I'm proud of what we built before this. Uh, last year's team was was incredible. Uh, we took the next step and a great group of guys I'd say this all the time they were winners on the court and off the court A lot of fun.

That's cool, really quick. So back when you were at KU, um, did you? You had kind of like a kind of like a providential moment, like how, with how you got the job with Bill self. Is that? Wasn't there like a story kind? Of in there where like you like stepped into a meeting that you weren't maybe supposed to be in or something, but you're like A little bit.

So two things that happened. I think it's life lessons, you know. I think first of all I went and met with Coach Self to see if I could get on the staff and and I love Coach, he's, he's great and he and he's coaches all over the place. So when I meet with him I'm like I don't think this guy's listening to me, but he was like being around him. I just know how he operates now, but at the time.

I'm like I don't even know if he's even paid. I think I'm just giving the spiel for nothing. And he told me he goes. Hey, I don't really have a spot. But if you there, I was like, well, that was kind of a waste of time.

Not a waste of time, but I was like well, I talked to my dad and he's like, hey, how'd your meeting with coach go? He goes, well, he didn't, doesn't really have anything. He said he could volunteer. My dad's like, well, you're still young, you don't have any kids yet you don't have any like, why don't you're going to start right here? Right, and sometimes you gotta, you gotta get you at that foot in the door and then prove yourself at whatever opportunity you get. And I think that was a really valuable lesson to me to learn like, okay, I needed, I needed to take advantage of what, what that opportunity was. And then, yeah, so we were. Even then, though like I was coming in and like I don't even think coach knew I was around most of the time, like I was just like coming in, just trying to stay out of the way really.

And I mean honestly, you probably probably asked in that first few months you probably didn't even know I was around, but they were meeting. This was like a day before their first game and they were meeting about who was going to film the games. And they were like and I could hear the meeting but I wasn't in the meeting. I probably, you know, I was eavesdropping a little bit but it was right next door so I kind of popped my head and was like hey, like if you guys need somebody to film, I'll film the games. Because I knew like another opportunity and I knew like that person got to go on the road too, like you had to take that guy on the road.

So, like in my mind like selfish.

I was like I'm going to get to go on the road and so I, um, yeah, so they're like, yeah, I get, yeah, sure, so I, I filmed the games the first couple of years and, um, you know, that was back before we had some of the technology now, so like that was really important to get to film it. And then that was the film they watched to break down everything oh cool, yeah, but yeah, that's kind of how I got another opportunity there.

Wow, kind of inched your way through the floor.

You said you were on the staff for the 08 team. Yeah, yeah, I was on the bench.

Yeah, I was on the bench. That was cool. That's wild bro. That game so I've been a KU fan was my team. We were Jayhawk family and so you know, for anybody that knows KU basketball, like we had so many good teams for a long stretch of time and you know great Jock Vaughn and Paul Pierce and Rafe of Friends and all these great players and didn't didn't win a national championship for a long time. So I can remember at the end of that game we're down eight to Memphis with two minutes minutes left, and in my mind I'm like sulking because I'm like man, memphis hasn't been any good forever, right, and they're gonna win a national championship. We've been good. And I'm like thinking about this in my mind instead of you know, and I I was on the end of the bench, I wasn't like a uh coach in the front yeah there wasn't many decisions being made for me.

I was just like more of a fan down there.

But I'm down there just sulking you know bad body language, all the things I tell our guys not to do, and then we kind of inch back. And so when mario chalmers made the shot, like there's a, there's not many, but like I jumped so high in the air like I think I could have dunked easy and because I was so excited, like partly because of the game but probably because, like, oh, we got a chance win it.

So when we won that that was really for a KU guy, kansas kid who played there, all the things for me. I know a lot of people got joy out of that, but that was pretty cool.

So you guys, during the preseason, you guys always play KU in a preseason game, don't you.

We do every so they play the Kansas team. So we play them every four years.

Every four years.

OK, so that's not a regular thing. Not a regular, so they rotate between us and the other Division II schools in the state. It's a really cool opportunity. This year we played them. Very, very fortunate that they do that.

That's got to be super special for you, though.

Oh, that's awesome for me and for our players, because we have a lot of guys that you know we recruit Kansas City, Wichita, Omaha, so we've got a lot of guys that are KU fans or guys that at least have an appreciation for what that program's about. So to get to get to play in an Allen Fieldhouse, for me to coach there at our guys, it's awesome.

When you go into that preseason game, I mean it's a preseason game, so you know it's not. I don't want to say it's not worth anything, but it's for me.

If you and I are playing bags or ping pong or pickleball, if we're keeping score, I like to compete.

It matters. If there's a scoreboard, then it matters, especially when it's my team.

I don't go into that game with delusions of grandeur that we're just going to go in there. Sure, you do think all right if everything went perfect, you know maybe you could get it done. But throughout it, as you know, with the talent discrepancy, you know the coaching's pretty even in my opinion.

Uh no, I'm just kidding there's a little bit of discrepancy in the coaching and um, so we're at a disadvantage there and you got 16 000 fans that are cheering against us. But, um, I think we try to use it as um an opportunity to compete. We do want to go in there and try to play well. You want to try to execute in a high stress environment. Um, knowing that you know you take it a little bit to grain of salt, like we didn't play great this year against them. They really shot it well.

Uh, they probably shot it as well, and when, after we got on plate, I was like man, they're gonna make a bunch of threes this year and that just didn't play out for them but, um, it's a great experience and we do try to get better from it, and I also want to help k you get better, because they don't have to do this, like they can go and play whoever. So I'm trying to help coaches, teams, get better to to a degree, yeah.

What is? What would you say? The difference is, you know, not a big basketball guy clearly didn't play. We're all five, eight over here. What would you say is the biggest difference between a division two basketball player and a division one basketball player?

Yeah, there's not as much difference as you probably think. I think our guys are very skilled. Sometimes there's a little bit of a skill discrepancy. As much difference as you probably think? Um, I think our guys are very skilled, um, sometimes there's a little bit of a skill discrepancy. The biggest thing is just the athleticism and length at that. You know, they just have, you know, guys that are longer and more athletic in general.

And there's a. There is a skill discrepancy to a degree, but I've got really skilled guys and I and I do have athletic guys especially for this level. But you're talking about six, seven, six, eight, six, nine, seven, one, seven, two, and so it's just that, that, that, that athleticism um is probably where I think you see the biggest differences, yeah.

Right, wow, that's wild. So what have you been most excited about in the program the last five years?

Yeah, I'm really proud of the human beings that we're putting out into the world Like I, I, I, my, my mission as a basketball coach is obviously to win basketball games. That's ultimately what pays my paychecks. But it's really important to me that we're trying to help develop these young men to be prepared for life and there's no question that, like A, our guys are graduating, which is important, but I think we're helping instill the habits, the mindset, the principles that they're going to need in life to be great husbands, fathers and contributors. And so we try really hard to preach that, to promote that, to live that, to breathe that, to make that our culture in our program. Wow.

Yeah.

There's a lot of coaches that are really good basketball coaches and they're going to win basketball games and they're going to manipulate their players to do that Right, but they don't necessarily prepare them for anything beyond that. And that's OK. Like I'm not judging that, I just have my own kids. I just personally want to try to help them be as good at basketball as they possibly can be. But also, what are we doing within our program to help them be prepared again for what life's going to throw at them? And so there's a lot that goes into that.

I'll say this we try to recruit the right guys. So so much of this is already done. Like we've had great kids from great families. So it's not like I'm doing much, I'm just trying to keep the train moving down the track. Like our parents have been phenomenal. We're we're recruiting a lot of really great people in here. We're just trying to build off of that as much as we can. So I'm really proud of what we've done on the court, but also, like now, you know, going to weddings and and seeing these guys, the parents, and how well they're doing in life, seeing them out in the real world as a coach and knowing that hopefully had just a tiny bit of influence on that. Like, for me that's cool, that's a big deal.

How do you do that? What are some of the things you focus on that are preparing them for the real world, like, yeah, how do you train them in that way?

I think it's for me. I just try to model that, john, as much as I can, um, through how I'm living my life, um, so, you know, I try to have the right habits and discipline in place, uh, on a daily basis. That shows those guys that, um, you know, one, it it really starts with my family, like trying to be um, I want to be a great coach, but it's much more important to me to be a great you hear coach say this all the time now, but, uh, really, it's way more important to me to be a great husband and a great father.

So I want our players to see that, like when my wife is around, how I treat her with respect and I'm present in her life and our relationship, and I want them to see how involved in my kid's life and how important my kids are to me. So that stuff I just try to. You know we talk about that a little bit, but also I think you guys want to see it.

You know I'm about actions. Dude. Congrats. I think your son just graduated.

Yeah, I just graduated from high school. Looks exactly like you in every way. That's a compliment to him, so I'll make sure, I don't think that's confident.

He's like, hey man, just know you're about to age really well yeah, he's done.

I'm happy for him. He's coming to washburn uh next year for me so I'm proud of him. That was cool. Um wife's been a little emotional, it's tougher, I said.

I'm going to see him every day so I'm not that sad she's like I'm not going to see him, but it's been great.

He's, he's good, but um, yeah, family, um, and then I think uh just constantly again, through how we run the program, having them try to meet a standard every day, which I think is important in life, like, hey, can you, can you show up every day and be ready and be present? And and uh really for our coaching staff being accountable to ourselves but also to our players, in that we're trying, we're trying to instill that um, academically. Uh, again, we're going to give them the structure they need, but making sure they're responsible academically and make sure they know that that's important. Um, and then there's a million other things Um, being, uh, being coachable is important because I think at some point they're going to have a boss that they're going to need to listen to.

Can you listen and retain information and execute a game plan? Uh, respect is a big thing in our program. You may not this year. This last year's team was and I know you had those guys on, they talked about it. This was as tight of a team. I know you had those guys on. They talked about it. This was as tight of a team as I've ever had and I think that was great. That's not always the case.

Like you, guys have people that you work with, that you work with them, but you may not hang out with them after work, and that's okay, but I think there has to be a level of respect for the organization to have success. So we talk about respect and what that looks like all the time. We talk about not making excuses I'm a big thing on that Like, hey, find a way, don't make excuses. We talk about handling hard, like life is never going to get easy, so how do you handle hard, and so I could go across the board, but we just try to instill things that are going to help us on the court. Uh, but we also talk a lot about hey, not even how that impacts them as basketball players, but how that impacts them as human beings when they're in that moment. I don't know that they always appreciate it, cause you know how you are when you're just like why is coach talking about this again? Like I'm not a dad yet or I'm not, I'm not married yet.

I don't even have a girlfriend, whatever Like. Why is he talking about this stuff? But I'm hoping that they understand how some of these things will hopefully help them beyond.

I think they mentioned a lot of those things when we sure, like the idea came up that, hey, this is preparing us for the rest of life too, yeah, um, and so I mean props to that. I mean, the guys remembered all the things you just said it's fresh on their mind, it was recent.

I would even say more props because I feel, like most people, they don't like getting a life lesson when they're getting it.

Yeah they appreciate the life lessons you Years down the road.

They remember what coach said. But if you have players right now who are like this was really good, yada, yada, it means you're doing something right.

Those guys again I'll go back their families, great foundation coming in and I did think we had a really self-aware group that is able to be at a maturity level to handle some of that. That that um is is able to be at a maturity level to to handle some of that, whereas some players just aren't aren't quite there yet, and that's okay. You know different different, different steps on the journey, but this, this group, was a very mature group.

With the guys that we were talking about. There's the. There's something about the skill of getting feedback that outside of athletics doesn't seem like people are really getting a lot of like feedback, like being challenged and being held accountable to a high standard. Um, it just seems like not a lot of kids in this younger generation one or even being given the opportunity to get kind of difficult feedback but, and maybe because of that, don't have the skills to handle it. You know, like man, it just kind of crushes them or you interpret it as rejection and you know all those things Instead of like, wow, this is kind of an opportunity to get better. And I mean what, what, what like how? That it's crazy how much that will really set your guys apart going into the workforce. Just the ability to like hey, man, I can take it, it's not personal.

Give me your feedback. I just want to get better you know that's a great.

I think that's a very interesting point. I think it's a great point. I think that and I've talked to some of my former players now that are much older and are recently I think that everybody has different advantages depending on what they did. You know, if you're in the band or debate, or it doesn't have to be sports, my objective from sports.

So I do think there are some advantage to that. I don't want to say there's not advantage to doing a lot of other things. I think with sports, john, the thing, one of the things that helps along those lines is like I get on my guy, like I coach him hard at times and it's high stress.

And you're also doing a, an activity where there's thousands of people watching you in real time.

So, like when you mess up in real time, there's pressure. There's pressure from your coaches and and and we are very. I think we try to do a great job of building relationships off the court. We'd have a lot of fun off the court Like we joke with our guys and we try to have fun off the court, but we're very. We have very direct communication and very honest communication, whether that's during practice or in film sessions good and bad.

It's like hey man, this was great.

Hey, this was, this was awful, right and it goes both ways. A lot more positive than negative. But what I've heard from my guys is, you know, some people go out in the real world and and you know the boss has a standard, the company has a standard and the boss and I've heard from my pleasure like yeah, the boss kind of got on us today because we didn't meet whatever, and he goes. Man, some of these people are just freaking out and he goes. But for me it was like no, a direct player was like has no impact. It was like I've been through that a million times in your practices.

So it's like it was like okay, Like it goes honestly, honestly, it was like he goes. It was a lot tamer than how you used to get off to it.

So I was like I don't know how to take that.

But, so I think, you're like you're welcome. Yeah you're welcome.

Yeah, yeah, I know you didn't like very much in that moment, but but I was helping you prepare. But I do think like sports and say, or just feedback on something you need to do better. Some people take that as like a certain type of way. I think athletes can potentially, you know, not be impacted and use that as a positive. And I do think like we need to hold people to stand. I do think like a lot of people are afraid in this day and age to hold people accountable, like don't lower, keep lowering the bar. We need to keep the bar where it is and keep pulling people up and that's how we all get better.

Yeah, yeah, the first phrase I've been using lately, and it's like you're like pulling greatness out of people. It's like it's there but it's raw it's undeveloped. And what you're trying to do is is I'm trying to pull this greatness out of you Like, how do we do that? And if you don't, if we never give people the chance to respond to a standard of excellence and challenge, we do that in a disservice, you know, and uh, it's hard, it's hard.

There's a balance, you know, and the timing and the communication, the relationship. There's so many dynamics to that and I think that's you can read all the books you want and you can do listen to all the pot and all this stuff, but like there's a field of that that great writers have, coaches have and bosses the great ones have, on how you deliver that, the timing, and I mean that that part of it is hard. You have to keep experiencing that, but for sure I do. I do think in general that you know, whether it's my profession or anybody, I think the accountability needs to be there. That's awesome.

You a big reader? Yeah Well, uh, give us some of the books you're reading right now or have read, but it's impacted you as a coach.

Um, um, I just got done reading a book called let them. Um, uh, it's the uh female. She has the podcast. Uh, uh, rock melt, is it? Um, oh my gosh, I should know it's all bad, but it was great.

I know exactly what you're talking about she had the book, the five second rule, whatever that is. Uh, she's a big podcaster, almost as big as this one. Um, uh, close, close, but it was good. It was just about like, hey, sometimes you can't control, like, what other people are doing or saying or thinking all the time, so don't let that impact your, uh, your, your, your mental. I'm actually reading a Bill Belichick's book. Uh, he just put out which I kind of feel a certain type of way right now about that, right now, cause he's got some other stuff going on. It's kind of out there.

So like my wife was like you're reading his book.

I'm like yeah it's just, this is just like a football book like on leadership, uh but uh, he is one of the greatest coaches.

I'm reading his book, but I'll read um a polar of women. Yeah, I, I, uh, I I'll try to read, um, I'll read a lot of a lot of leadership books, but coaching, non-coaching, yeah, I'm pretty active.

Well, I'm glad that you thought the Let them book was good. That was my wife's phrase for 2025 was Let them, and I'm telling you, I don't even think she read the book. She was just explaining this phrase to me and she doesn't'm like. What does that even mean when I got the books.

that's something that's right. And my wife was saying, well, she's like, oh, I heard great things about that book and for the first chapter I was like I don't know. She's like what do you think about the book? It's like it's okay.

And then I did, I did thought.

I thought it was good.

Yeah, Do you have books like from you know the first five years of coaching that were pretty like monumental for you, Like how you think about things?

Yeah, um, the culture code. Uh uh, dean Smith's book on the Carolina way, like uh, was really impactful on me. Um, uh, nick Saban has a book. That's that, that leadership book, that's really good. Um, man, I've got my whole. I've I've got hundreds of books, so it's hard to necessarily just narrow down one. But sure, yeah, uh, um, john Gordon's got some good ones out there, simple reads, but like the principles are are are good.

The energy bus it's like so simplistic, like okay, but like it is really like as far as how you want to try to be as a person. I don't think we all ever quite get to a hundred percent of that but, john Gordon, is that the carpenter?

Yeah, carpenter, the energy bus.

He's got a great series and those are all. They're simplistic reads, but I think like some of those principles are like yeah, this is how I kind of want to be as a person. Yeah, so good.

Well, do we want to transition into the reason? We have you on the show. So we recently, as you know, had Andrew, jake and Sam on the show and you know we were just asking, we're chopping it up they were making some claims.

They were making some claims. I heard.

Oh, you've heard, I've heard.

I've watched it. I'm a big fan of the show. I told you this.

Let's just remind some of those who maybe have have not have heard we asked them one v one, them three, you know, taking you on coach brett ballard and, and I quote, I believe it was jake, but it came out of all three of their mouths in different ways.

I would fry him, that's what they said ironically, the first one to say it wasn't a starter.

So I was like, well, that's what they said, so we wanted to you on, give you the floor and let you defend your honor and let you have.

Well, I felt bad for you guys because you guys have done such a great job of building this thing up, All of the credibility credibility, Like what's the thing on Twitter when they can like, you know, community notes.

Yeah.

I'm pretty sure you know community notes. You're right.

Yeah.

I'm pretty sure, like I thought, you guys are going to have to take that whole deal down because it was such an outlandish claim that I thought you know, you guys have worked so hard.

And then these guys come in here and, uh, you lose all credibility in one show. Um, you know, here's the thing. Uh, I'd I've been giving these guys a hard time since I saw that. Um of all, if it was now, I was like are you guys talking about now? Because I'm 45 years old and haven't you know, I still work out all the time. But, like you know, I was like we talk about now, or when I was a player, and so we discussed that and I said even now, because they said, hey, I beat you 11-0 or whatever.

That is crazy talk, I'm getting a basket. I'm getting at least one point, like I grew up in the nineties, like we're hand-checking, we're fouling, like you're going to have to. I'm getting one point. Now, when I played, now, when I played, and I was a player, I think I could, you know, hold my own against those guys.

But 11-0 is crazy talk. So I I'm not saying I would certainly right now they would kill me and it would give me problems because he's gigantic. You know, he's got the size advantage. Sam and Jake are both. They're all really good players. So I'm not trying to discount that, but that was crazy.

They said they're on fry coach, I cook coach and all that stuff. Like, come on, man, I'm going to hold my own a little bit, but I'm all. Jokes aside, those guys are hilarious. Um, they did a great job on the they. They were. That was awesome interview and I love those guys.

I think that's a little bit of like what we have like we can joke about that stuff and we've been like in the gym the last couple of weeks like I'll bring it up from time to time. I can't believe you get off of me yelling that out in the gym. And and, uh, we had some recruits in. I'm talking to these guys. Can you believe? These guys said they could beat me like that. So we've had a lot of fun with it, but those three guys were all studs and I'm going to miss coaching. Jake and AO they're both seniors. Sam got back another year, AO was a three-year starter. So great players, really good guys. Now a little outlandish with some of their takes.

But, for the most part, I thought it was a good interview. Good guys, a little disappointing. Like you thought they could see reality more accurately. I always talk about self-awareness.

I had an interview with the Capital Journal this year and they said what's one of the things you like about this team? I said well, these guys are really self-aware. I'm big on, I like self-aware people, and I thought these guys were very self-aware.

We thought Maybe.

I'm just wrong.

AO mentioned that he's maybe got some opportunities to play overseas.

He's going to go play. He signed with an agent. He did okay. He signed with an agent, doesn't have an official job yet, but he'll play somewhere overseas, which is awesome. Jacob Hanna signed with an agent. He'll play somewhere overseas which is cool.

Those guys have the opportunity to go Spain, France, Italy, somewhere probably in Europe and uh, there's some pretty good pro leagues over there and have an opportunity. It's kind of cool for two reasons One, you're over there, so you experienced another part of the world, and two, you're playing basketball for a living and uh, that's, that's a great opportunity.

How, how common is that division? Two guys going to play overseas.

Um, more than you probably think, but you got to be pretty good at a division two ranks to get to get those opportunities. You know, division one obviously more, uh, more common, but uh, we've had a handful of guys do it and um decided for those guys.

That is awesome. So, uh, earlier we were talking about this last season and you're saying, hey, you know a lot, a lot of the seasons before that were still very good in your mind. Do you consider this last season kind of a special high mark compared to those, even though those were added a lot? And then where does that put you now, moving forward, in light of man, we just had this kind of wild season.

Yeah, well, to answer the first part of that question, yeah, this season I thought we've had some really good seasons. I think what's hard for people to understand is a lot of people in this area k you're, k state fans, so when you say, hey, I made the tournament, they're like okay, and it's kind of cool, but they don't understand. In division two there's only eight teams out of our region. It's like there's some other regions that just aren't very good, right, it's like so there might be a team that can make it every year.

Yeah, but they're going to get eight in from that region. Right, we would crush, we would dominate that region Right, or the teams in our league would dominate that region. There's some regions that just aren't as good. They do that in Division II for financial reasons so that they can save money on travel initially on that part of the tournament.

Oh, sure, so like when you make the eight out of our region, it's a big deal. And I just think, like, and it's okay, I mean people just don't know what they don't know but it's like oh, you made the tournament. Like that means we had a. If you're the top eight in this region, it's basically like making a sweet 16 in the NCAA division one tournament.

in a way, it's kind of the way I would envision it and Washington's been to five or four or five sweet 16s like, oh, wow, that's pretty impressive. But yeah, I thought we definitely. You know you win the league, win the region, go to the Final Four, lose in the semifinal, like this team. Not only with that, but just the way we played. Our average margin of victory was almost 20 points a game. Yeah, it was wild. We led the conference in points, assist, field goal percentage, led Division II in attendance. So I thought that this team for sure a special year. How do you replicate that?

And I've thought about this a lot because for me, I've already moved on. My job is now how do we get we talked about that standard? How do you get back to that standard? And I think I've had two thought processes behind it, like how my job is now, how do we get we talked about that standard? How do you get back to that standard? Right, and I think I've had two thought processes behind it.

I think part of it is you have to have a reality to the players coming back about how hard it is to accomplish that. So I always try to get our guys to respect the work, work and um, it's kind of like, if, uh, you're telling me John, like, hey, uh, if you're going to tell me, uh, I'm a, I'm big on this like, hey, you live in Kansas city, I'm like, hey, how long is it going to take me to get to your house? And like, people are like, oh, it takes like 30 minutes and well, it's really like 50 because by the time, like you get like. So I want to know, I want to know what the path might look like.

I think it's important to your team to paint the picture of like last year was great To replicate. That is going to be really, really hard. It's hard to win.

It's hard, especially because the target's going to be bigger on your back. We lost good players, all that stuff, so I want our guys to understand how hard it's going to be, but, on the flip side, that we can do that again because we have a standard, because we have the right people in the room, because I think, as a coaching staff, we're going to be prepared because of all the things that I think we can, we can control. Like I think we can control so many things that factor into winning. Like I do believe we can get back and I do believe with the roster I have right now we just signed a couple of transfers and I believe with what we have in place, like we have the ability to get back to what we were Now. Again, I go back to it. That doesn't mean that's just going to happen.

You don't just show up and that happens and years like that.

there's a reason that Washington hadn't won that many games but twice in our a hundred years of basketball.

Wow.

So you know, you put things in perspective, but also you know what makes Kansas a lead or Alabama football lead, or you know you go across the board like there's there's an expectation that we can go back and do that again If, if we, if we put the work in.

Like, the possibility is there. No question, it's not like a program that's never touched that level before.

Yeah, it's not like this was like, and I'll hear people saying, well, you caught lightning in a bottle. All these terms you can use and, yes, I'm not discounting anything that that was a special year and there's some luck involved with staying healthy and all the pieces fitting. But I truly believe with what we have in place, with the resources we have. We haven't talked about Washington yet, but like incredible resources over there. Leadership Dr Majicek and her team are phenomenal. Uh, my athletic director, lauren for Ray and our leadership there. The facilities, the resources uh, we have the things in place at Washburn. Um, that'll help us, along with the coaching staff and the players. Like there's ingredients there for, for, for that to be, to, to be a lead again.

They're in the middle of redoing Lee Arena, aren't they?

Correct, yes.

So what's all going on there? What kind of changes can we expect?

Yeah, it's awesome. So we're putting over $5 million into the gym, wow, yeah, so right now, if you walked into Lee Arena, there's no bleachers, there's no floor. They have completely gutted it. So they've taken everything out, so that that floor that was in it, that Lee was built in the mid eighties, that was the original floor, uh, and so we'll have a brand new floor, uh, brand new bleachers. Our bleachers were those tan bleachers which are kind of like 1980s, and I feel like we probably should have kept them, cause I feel like everything comes back in style.

So it's like tan's going to be back back in in like five years or like we need to paint the bleachers back tan, but right, uh, they looked really dated. So like brand new bleachers, brand new floor, new video boards, uh, new lighting, um upgraded sound system, new goals, so new branding. So it was already a good spot, like the cat fed room, that we had down there big time incredible saw you guys have some games but like you know he gets, he gets going at yep, no, no.

Invite to the cat no invite if you sponsor the washington university basketball team friend who got invited might invite me to go with them, but yeah, man do a podcast with the guy I know I guess we're not actually friends outside.

We see each other twice just podcast friends I appreciate you guys constantly.

You guys are the game, so I appreciate that. But the cat fed room was awesome. That was new last year, so that'll still be there, obviously. And then, yeah, new, new everything in the arena they're. They're working on that entire summer. That'll be done next fall.

You know what I think an underrated part of that cat fed room is the top level. I mean you can watch games from the top level so cool tables.

That is a super play a super cool place to watch out. Well, it does look like it would be cool if it is really cool. It is really a game from that place. Love inside jokes. Wish I could be part of one someday that's cool.

Does the basketball team have any use for that big indoor facility? Do you guys use that at all for anything, or is that more of a football track? Yes, and no.

So my first three or four years here we didn't have that. So the pole vault team um, they had a pole vault mat in our gym and there was a hole cut out in the floor for the where they put they're probably named for that, but where they put the pole vault in. So I used to joke with the pole vault coach um, um, great dude. I said I think you guys schedule your practices for the exact same time that we practice every day, because anytime we went to gym they were in there and I swear, when we weren't in there, they weren't in there. It's not I'm joking, cause they, but so they would be in their practice andball would be in there. Throwing in the wintertime Track would be in there on the sides.

Oh, wow, we'd have shot putters down on the south end because we didn't have the indoor at that time. So when it's cold out from November through end of February, they needed a place to train. So Lee Arena became an indoor facility that was a basketball court and we'd have all this stuff going on. It was beneficial in some ways because we had to get used to practicing with all this stuff going on around us.

So, that part of it was actually kind of beneficial because I got used to like trying to coach through all distractions, because they needed a place to go.

Right. So when they built the indoor, now they all have a place to train, so it's nice for us because nobody's in our gym, so it's a much better learning environment. That's interesting. Didn't think about that, we didn't. We don't use it a ton other than we do condition in there in the preseason. A couple of times we'll go on the turf and do a little bit and then we do use the track to do some of our conditioning stuff a handful of times during the year when we're doing our preseason stuff. And it's interesting when you go on the turf how how small you like, how much bigger a football field is in basketball, just cause we'll get out there and do some stuff, and it seemed that it's obviously a not quite a full-size football field link with wide as it is. It's a little bit shorter lengthwise cause it's indoor. But yeah, it's awesome that that.

That facility is amazing. Yeah, I have had a buddy who was a coach at Washburn talking about all the facilities this was before. This was like eight or nine years ago just talking about how much nicer Washburn is than any other division too. Do you have a similar opinion as far as when you're recruiting guys, that facilities just kind of blow away your competition, makes your job easier, or what do you think it's? Definitely?

we're definitely at the top as far as overall facilities. I mean, there's some other places that are doing some good things, but we for sure, across the board, with our campus and our facilities, we're towards the top of Division II. I mean that indoors is nice. Really, not many people have an indoor, but especially one with a track and a football field. Our basketball arena is getting ready to get upgraded. We have a practice gym, our weight room. So, for sure, when, when we and I and I I heard you guys talking about this to the guys but and it's true when we get guys on camp, when we get recruits on campus, um, they're, they're always very impressed, and so I appreciate what our boosters and what our leadership's done to to to enhance our facilities.

Yeah.

Shout out to CapFed.

Yeah, absolutely.

They've been great. Now those CapFeds are a very important part of our community and especially at Washroom they've been phenomenal.

What's the best and worst part of coaching. I'll start with the worst. I think the worst is just the stress of trying to win games. For me, it's really hard to win and um, the, the margin is so thin and so, um, I really truly wish I was better at handling that and I and I and I work on that, I mean. So my faith is important to me and my family and I try to stay balanced because I think like that's important in life but also to help me be the best version of myself as a coach.

But it's a really stressful like to try to figure out how do you win Um, and then part of that is you're trying to uh figure out 18, 19, 20, 20, 21 year old brains, what buttons you push and how do we get the best version out of them, um, and uh, constantly learning and evolving from that perspective. Like, um, you know every kid's different, every team's different, so, um, that part of it is part of what I like, but also really challenging. So I think the, the, the, the, the thing, the stress, the game day stress and figuring out how to win games is probably for me, the, the, the, the, the toughest thing, uh, the best thing um a lot. I love my job.

So I love. Do you realize how awesome your job is?

Uh, I do Okay and I'll mean that anyway, I that sounds probably. I probably comes off sound no not at all, not at all.

I don't want that to sound the wrong way, but I do appreciate, like if you would have told me when I was like seven years old, dude, you're going to coach college basketball for a living, I would have been like what Like that's like? Or when I was 17 years old, like, hey, you're going to coach college basketball for a living, I'm like what that's great, like no way. And so like I'm very, very grateful and I love competing, so I like that part of my job. I love to compete. I love teaching. So I really enjoy the teaching part of it, because my dad was a teacher and that's in my heart. You know kind of what I wanted to do, so I enjoy the teaching part of it.

I really enjoy trying to help young people instill confidence in themselves, belief in themselves and again, we've said this a million times be the best for like, help them be successful and be a part of that journey is so awesome. Um, and it's just fun being around college kids. Man, like they're funny. You guys they're funny, they're fun. They keep me younger. Like I love messing with them. I still feel like I know I'm older but I still feel like I'm young at heart. So I just love that interaction and you know they're still staying at the same age and I I, I enjoy being around that interaction and you know they're still staying at the same age and I I, I enjoy being around that age and they're still on the journey of like figuring out who they are, but they're mature enough to like have good conversations with you and we can joke about lebron and jordan, or we can talk about faith and religion, or we can talk about whatever. Like the conversations can go wherever, but I enjoy just being around.

Uh, our Well, it'd be weird next year with your son there you know being like hey my son is now the age that I've been coaching for years.

It's funny at the grad his graduation I was like looking at some of these people and I feel like they're so much older than me and I'm like, oh, I'm the same age as these people, so I think I've just dated him. I think I'm just older than I think I am. But I, um, yeah, I think, uh, there's going to be so much positive. Like I've talked to coach self and some other people that coach their sons and everybody's like, oh man, it's great. But I do think there's some challenges there, cause I know what happens like after a hard practice.

I know what happens in the locker room, right, those guys go back and they're like man coach is tripping and man this guy's nuts, and you know we got to come back.

I know what happens in that locker room. I mean, I get it.

You know I'm not everybody's buddy in there. That's not how it should be. I don't want it to be that way and I think as a coach's kid like you understand that. But I'm always like handle that the right way. We've got great guys that will embrace him. I think I'm really excited because he'll work hard. He's a great kid. I think that dynamic is awesome, but there's certainly some things that I think. I don't think there's any big negatives to it, but there's some challenges to that. I know we're joking. We have a bad practice. He's going to come home and complain to mom.

you know coaches, she's going to be like I know.

And she's going to be on this team.

Like hey, we're on a team here we're on a team. Yeah, like I know that coach is an idiot.

Wow, that's amazing. Uh, maybe I mean it's kind of transitions. So you said this is your eighth or ninth year. Eighth year yeah, this is your eighth year. So not necessarily like decades and decades, but like is different about today's college student or or even today's player? Like what are the biggest challenges that an 18 year old has today that maybe they didn't have 10 years ago?

That's a good question. Yeah, I think a couple of things. I don't know that I've seen monumental changes.

necessarily, I think that social media has in many ways made things much more challenging for kids in this generation and I know you guys talked about that and you addressed that for a know, for for a living, john. Uh, in some ways right, like you're trying to help people navigate that. Um, because of everything you know, we just everybody is comparing everybody's life to what you see on it. Like you guys see some of my life through social media and I'm putting you know I just posted pictures last night on Instagram and Facebook of my son's graduation. It's like, oh, that looks amazing and in that situation it was.

Yeah, or cutting down the net after a huge win yeah, or cutting down the net, but we're not posting.

you know, we lost two on the road at Oklahoma and I'm on the bus wanting to puke and we're not posting the bad stuff and nobody does really Right. And so I think our players and just life and kids in general, just constantly the message is, oh, I'm not good enough or it's not as good, or you know, and for you know, comparison is a thief of joy, like that's so true and it's hard, for I mean, I'm guilty of that, like I'll be looking at other programs like, oh man, this coach is 38.

He's already won two championships and I'm comparing myself to this guy or this program, or hey, look what they're. They just got that recruit and we didn't get them. And I mean you just get everything thrown in your face. So I do think we try to help them navigate that we talk all the time about just being thankful and grateful for what we have and that what they're doing is special and what you know, the opportunity they have at Washburn is special, and taking advantage of that and don't compare yourself to others. So I've tried to help with that part. Um, I think a little tiny bit is I and we talked about it's very we're going to show us this perfect. Uh, I get nervous about us lowering standards. It's like, well, we're not, we're not taking this test score anymore as a standard.

And we're this though. We don't need, you don't need this standard to get in anymore and we're not looking at that anymore. And there's some positives to that, without question, because there were some biases there and there's. I'm not saying all that stuff's negative, but at some point like we just if we keep lowering that bar, then like okay, you know, does it mean something to come to be at Washburn or whatever that may be?

So you know, I do think as a society that you know, kids and parents.

We just keep trying to instill the right habits and discipline into them. And accountability and those things I think should still matter in our lives, and accountability and those things I think should still matter in our lives and young people I think they actually crave structure in a way.

I think they fight it a lot, but I think structure for the most part within a is really good for for most of us. I know it's good for me. I think for most young people some of that structure is good. They fight you on it and I know, and sometimes as a parent in the moment that's hard. You know, you've been there, your kid's screaming it and that's sometimes in the moment that I'm just going to give in in this moment because it's like you know.

I was guilty of that as a parent. All the time I go I give it in and you know they're whining and complaining. It's like you never teach them the right thing, so just in general, I think what we're trying to do as a program is it's hard, because then people, you're old school, you know.

Right, I have to be careful because it's like well, I want to go play for a player's coach. That's a, that's a term, I guess. So I want to be a go play for a player's coach. And listen, there's some old school mentalities that I don't think any of us would think is appropriate in this day and age, but I do think there's. You know, like I'll use Nick Saban as an example Like Coach Saban was so good for so long, not because he was easy to play for, but he recruited the right way and then again the daily standard was there and his kids craved that and they were rewarded because of that. Now a lot of people would say he's an old school coach, but I think there's some, there's some aspects of that that we got to keep. And then you keep progressing with the generation. Like a lot of what I do now is explain the why, a lot more than I did early in my career.

This generation, I think, and it's I don't. I don't think it's a bad thing. I think these kids want to know why, like we're doing this drill, and it used to, hey, we're going to do this drill, and he kind of just did the drill. Well, now, hey, here's why we're doing this real quick. Like this is why we're doing this, because this is important to our ball screen coverage. This is going to help us in these scenarios. Okay, and like there, for this generation, which isn't a bad thing, I think it's good to kind of want to know why you're doing certain things in life. And then there's also sometimes you just need to go do it. But we try to explain the why a little bit more, and maybe that's probably for sure for me, from when I first started coaching till now, that part of it's definitely changed.

Explaining the why part through film, through our communication with them. That is interesting because I think I found myself doing something similar, but not necessarily being as in tune with the reasoning as you know you're seeing this along kind of longer pattern of like.

Maybe back in the day there was uh, more, not comforts, not the right word. They were used to being held to a high standard and and maybe even comfortable with authority, maybe in a different way, Whereas like hey, you're the boss, I do what you say. Now it's kind of like why should I listen to you? You know it's not as much, or why are we doing this?

I think any boss is like okay, well, told me to do this, but why are we doing this Right? And again, I think, like on some level, that's not always a bad thing. Sometimes you just blindly, and that can't always be good, but I think you know it's like they kind of well, here's why we're doing this, because this is good for this or this is going to do. You know, I think there's probably more of that. I don't know.

Sometimes I feel I really don't want to be that old crotchety coach that's like complaining about the younger generation.

I don't have to be that guy because I love this generation. My son's a part of it and we got some great like. There's so many pop I, you know we talked about you. Look for the positive, look for the negative man there's. This generation is doing so many positive things and there's so many great kids out there that are going to do that, are have work, ethic and relationships and communication and all that. So I think we get enamored by the ones that don't have that or are struggling and we want to label a whole generation that way. But I think there's so many good things with these young people and I know just for the ones I'm around I love being around them.

It's awesome when you guys eventually get a national championship. What's like, what would you like to see in terms of, like, citywide celebration? You know like what should be the response when that happens? Well, you know like what, what should be the response when, when?

that happens. Well, I mean that that that is an ultimate goal and that that is honestly what I'm working for. I mean we I have some, some goals along the way. We've met some of those, but there's no question in my mind that we can do that here at Washburn and I'm working really hard to get that done. Last year so we've been top 12 and division two attendance, uh, every year since I've been here. So we've had great crowds since I've been here. Last year we're number one in attendance.

So you guys were there Some of those regional games. The way the community came out it was just a different level when you win.

But also, I think, just like we got a vibe going, people came and I think people like, man, this is an awesome product and our marketing staff, everybody they did a great like you came to games, had fun Our games aren't as long because we don't have TV timeouts, so you can bring your kids oh, totally, tickets are affordable, concessions affordable, and it's a fun environment, so like, and you can be home before bed, like there's a lot of positive things to it. So like the way the community uh supported last year was was great. Um, you know, I think, uh, if we, if we could win a national championship, I think there'd be so many positives that. But I've always thought about, um, you guys probably don't pay attention to this, but like, when you drive down I-70 or come in 435, on the road it says Washburn University, yes, and underneath it you know what it says no it says national champions women's basketball uh, 2005, and it says national nai, because there's any at that time.

men's basketball 1986 oh wow, so those are on there, yeah, and I was like how cool would that be, because think about how many people drive by that, right? Oh yeah, you, you're having to pay attention, so you got to lock into that. Next time I exit before those are shown on I-70. So I'm like that would be pretty cool that one's been up there since 86. Wow, 40 years, almost Wow. And I'm like you know that'd be pretty cool to be like you drive past that. I was the coach of that team.

That's kind of a it's a little bit corny, but it's a little bit of a motivation thing for me. I try not to. I'm not real big on the individual like that, but like I think that'd be really cool when I'm 65 and hopefully done coaching and I'm driving past that Like I coached that team.

So that'd be before after they put the 50 foot statue of the center of campus.

I, you have breath now, all right. Well, the center of campus. I thought it was cool this year and I was telling the boys when we had them on uh, this was the first year where I found myself talking to my wife saying, hey, we should go to johnny's to watch the washburn game on tv. Yeah, and she's like what, I'm like there, and then you know the final four, like we should go watch that game somewhere you know it's always the super bowl or the king.

Okay, you're gonna get big games but it was so cool I said it out loud and we made plans to go.

Then we're sitting there watching the game. I'm like this is the first time I've ever done this for and I went to washburn and so that was super cool and shout out to your guys's program for creating a culture and a product where the you know the community is super bought in for sure it's awesome video.

Somebody sent me from john Johnny's and maybe one for Bullfrogs or whatever During our, I think, Elite Eight or Final Four game and it was like everybody's, like it was cool.

That was awesome.

And just going to the store and stuff people recognizing or just saying I appreciate that. I really appreciate the support of the community. That's super cool.

Do you ever get community feedback out in public Like hey, coach, you should have done this, you should have done that one thing about no like a friday night lights, oh yeah well, you know you get feedback right, oh, all the time and um.

So I think, um you're in a profession like this, so on certain level, like a lot of people played sports, so on a certain level everybody thinks on a certain level like I can do what he does on a certain level, right? Yeah, and I always like say this he like when I go to the dentist and he's doing a root canal, I never think, man, I could do that better.

Right or I?

would have done that different, like I want to use that pick and stuff, like you know, I don't know, but on my, my job in particular, it's like people come in and regardless, like you know, on, even if we win, we win people like I probably would have done, and so that part of it I don't love all of that because some of them are like listen, we put a lot of time and effort and there's a lot that goes into this.

I'm thinking about this all the time. It's my full-time job, same with what?

you did. I put a lot of time and effort and thought and I get.

you can pick this little part apart but there's a million, but at the same time I do understand that's part of it. Um and uh, I don't. I think that with. So I was thinking about this, so I'm going to sound old again, but when I used to turn on sports center, they would show like a three or four minute highlight of the game. It's like, it's like and it may not be like a playoff game, just like KU versus Missouri, and it was like three minute high, like all these highlights. And then it'd go to the next game and show highlights and then so you'd see, like all these highlights from the game. Now it's like 30 second highlight and then three minutes of debating you know why did Jokic do this or this call Like.

So it's turned into this society that we debate sports more than we watch sports a little bit, and obviously it obviously there's a reason they do it. It sells, right. It's like the whole Jordan-LeBron thing. I don't mind, it's fun, but sometimes we just don't appreciate how about we just appreciate how good LeBron is and just enjoy that or Kobe, or Steph or whoever, and I think it kind of creeps into every part of it.

So I do think like people are more critical now maybe, than ever. Even I'll go to my like you sports games, like just be quiet watch and it's fine but I think, part of society. I would like to see us just like let the coaches coach, let people do their jobs.

But it's been great as far as just the support, and most people are really supportive of positive so every once in a while I it's been great as far as just the support, and most people are really supportive of positive, so everyone wants to get some suggestions. In public you get people ever stop, oh, yeah, yeah, oh yeah, oh, for sure it makes me uncomfortable. It's OK, not all that, but it's OK Stopping you at Walmart, hey man.

I'm with your kids, so I guess getting that feedback from the community does it make it easy for you to watch your son play and be coached by his high school coach and you just get to sit there as a dad.

or is that still tough sometimes it is still tough and I empathize with anybody who has a kid playing a sport, because you're seeing it through your perspective and every one of us want our kids to have a certain experience Right, and so it's really hard.

And even for me now I let my kids' coaches coach them. One thing in my house growing up, I never heard my parents talk bad about a teacher or coach Wow, never. And so I always thought I had great coaches and great teachers. And it's funny because years later, like, my dad was talking about one of my coaches when I was younger and he's like that guy was a little and I never heard that in the house. So when I was playing for that guy at that time when I was younger, it was like, oh no, he's a great coach and I've tried to, and I don't say I'm going to say it's the perfect way to parent, but I really believe in, like, respecting your coach Because, like, even if I talk bad about him, is it going to change anything in the moment for them?

Is that going to help your son play on his team? It's an excuse, right, right, yeah.

And so I never in front of them will say and they've had great coaches, so I don't but about a teacher or a coach, and they've had really good ones for sure. It's still challenging for me because, especially in basketball, it's what I do and there's certain things that certainly I would maybe do a little bit differently. It doesn't make it right or wrong, but I don't express those verbally in front of other people or to my son. I may talk about it to my wife in a private conversation. But for the most part, man, we've been really blessed and they've had great coaches on the way. And part of me too is like these high school coaches, middle school coaches, youth coaches, they're doing it out of the good, like they're not making that much money, these middle school teachers are making like 500 bucks, maybe to coach the team, maybe, and the high school coach is not much more.

so, like right, thank you for the time you spent doing this stuff and I try to right, you know what a good perspective, but it's hard it is hard because if your kid doesn't have a good experience man, yeah, first person a lot of times you want to put it on as a coach and not all the coaches are perfect, I know that, but um most of them are doing the best they can that's a great perspective.

We should clip that and send that to all the parents in Topeka. Yeah, I'm kidding, yeah, well some rapid fire questions Get you out of here.

So we like to end our time with some rapid fire questions. We usually ask the same ones if we remember them, but we'll start with go to date night in Topeka. You're taking your wife out. Where are you going? Good?

question Couple options here. Um, I really like what they've done downtown so we may go to iron rail or the pennant. Like I like the pennant, cause you can go like play some video games and like do some. I'm a. I'm like, yeah, again I have to compete, so like it's like we're on a date night, but I can beat her in some video games you know, and really puff my chest about beating an NBA 2k or NBA jam. Uh, you know, uh, but triple front flip dunk.

Yeah, exactly he's on fire, yeah, and she's really fired up about play. She's like why are we playing this video game? Like, be quiet. I'm trying to, I need this right now, yeah, but no, uh, I like the downtown vibes Awesome, um, but uh, we, we live kind of Southwest time, so anywhere I want to make her's good, but I'll say downtown? Yeah, for sure.

Love it, love it. Uh, go to coffee shop. Are you a coffee drinker?

Oh yeah, Um, so I have a curing in my office so that's usually my go-to. But a big circle coffee guy Uh, really liked the vibe over there. Good people over there, um, um, pt's coffee is is good, um, and then, um, the one on 29th that, uh, goodness, they have special needs. People working there, dialogue. Honestly, it wasn't up on them until just last couple, maybe a year or so ago, but try to pop through there and love what they're doing for the community they have a really good bakery.

I don't stop and get coffee every day because I do it in my office but I like and there's other good ones. So I don't stop and get coffee every day cause I do it in my office but I like and there's other good ones. So I don't want but PT circle and a dialogue is awesome.

That's awesome. So it's come up a few times. But where do you stand on the MJ LeBron debate?

You know I'm an, I'm an MJ guy. I, I, I. I just thought MJ was the ultimate competitor and, like I'm an MJ, that's who I grew up watching. You know he's my era. Respect the heck out of LeBron, though. Like the longevity he's been consistently good. I think LeBron maybe long-term will be more like Kareem. Kareem did it for a long time, won championships, was consistently great for really longer than Jordan and maybe LeBron when it's all, maybe, when it's maybe be like more like that and I know there'll be people yelling and screaming about that that think you know lebron's way better than jordan. But uh, I like watching lebron too. He's.

He's been great for a long forever well watching that, uh, jordan documentary, as not a basketball guy but watched it, really enjoyed it. It come, have you seen it? Uh, you should watch it. Last dance, your last dance yeah, really enjoyed it. It come, have you seen it? Uh-uh, you should watch it. Last dance, your last dance yeah, really good. It changed my entire perspective on competitiveness and whether or not I'm a competitive person. I thought I was a competitive person. You know everyone thinks I don't like losing and watched the documentary and I went and told my dad and I said I'm not a competitive guy like I am I am nothing like that and I'm thinking back.

You know my high school athletics. I'm like nope, wasn't competitive then I didn't care, you know, and I just kind of some self-awareness after watching that like that guy is an animal there's probably something good and bad about like that level of right.

You know, yeah, because because you know if mj doesn't win, then you just. Then that turns into just being a jerk, like there's's such a fine line between stuff that he was doing.

Now he won and so, like now you can, you can justify all of it. But yeah, Jordan was just that competitive and that's part of what's hard, Like to to get yourself up for that again and again, again. Like that competitive stamina that you have to have Like you know, Patrick Mahomes has shown that so far like that competitive stamina to get yourself up to that level is really hard. That's why a lot of guys at the end kind of fall off, because it's just hard to get yourself that level right relentlessly um.

Are you golfer?

yeah, uh, favorite golf course in topeka um I, cypress is probably where I play the most. Let's go um. So cypress is like a good track. I just played out there that day, I don't, so that was actually the first time I played this year. I'll play a handful of times this. I just life and kids and yeah, it's not a huge priority for me right now. I'm hoping that once the kids get a little bit older I have a little more time. But I like Cypress Lake, shawnee's probably second.

Yeah, being super competitive.

Is golf hard for you? Oh, golf is so hard for me because I would just out tough things in general, like I wasn't the biggest, strongest, but like I'm going to out tough it and out compete it and out work it, and golf is. I just played the other day with some guys and we played a scramble for a charity event and out of the four guys I was probably the worst. Not probably I was the worst. So like I'm like I'm feeling this like pressure which I don't want to feel. I just want to be out there having fun and I can't out-tough it. So I can't just out. Okay, I'm just going to out-tough you in this game. It's like this mental space you have to get in. So I think it's really good for me. It's just in the moment. Sometimes I'm like I hate it, like why am I doing this to myself? And then I'll hit a good shot. It's like, oh, I'm awesome and I'm the like I'm yeah, and so I haven't.

I didn't play ever growing up and I'm just kind of getting into it. Yeah, that's my excuse. I've probably been playing long enough. I should probably be better, but I'm trying to. I'm trying to get there. Such a great sport to like. Yeah, long term play.

Have you read the book Grit by Angela Duckworth? Whenever I'm playing golf, I think of that book every time, where the premise of the book, if you could sum it up in a sentence, is consistency beats talent and a golfer a lot of us you and I are getting our competitive edge out playing that sport. Now that we're retired athletes, it's like you're just not going to be talented at golf. Like there's very few people that just show up and are just good at it.

And so it's like hey, you have to be consistent, you have to show up you have to show up, you have to.

I've been going to the range more consistently the last two years and it's amazing how much that's helped me, and that's a great book, by the way. That's a very, very good book.

Wow, what's one or two things that you would like to see? Come to Topeka.

Well, I'm fired up that we're getting Raising Cane's, yeah, and yeah, that's a big clap, my kids, I think, clap my, my kids, I think we need that every meal and what else water burgers.

Uh, another solid option, yeah, yeah um I'm a brahms guy, okay, so do we have a brahms no, we don't, we not get a brahms.

I thought we were getting one well, I don't know if we are, but we don't currently have one guys so would love to see um brahms come to topeka.

The other thing we need in topeka from a sports perspective is a facility where we can host tournaments in volleyball and basketball. I'm on the sports commission and we've been throwing it around but we go to Kansas City all the time for my kids' games. So we need from a sports facility someplace where we can host teams, to come to Topeka One so we can be here economically. I think it'd be great. And we also need turf fields for soccer like soccer things blowing up.

We all drive to Lawrence or Kansas city for a lot of that A lot of us do, and Topeka soccer club has got some stuff good stuff going on down there, but we need some more turf fields, and so, from a sports side, I'd like to see us invest, because it's economically going to be very beneficial for the city.

Well, we'll end with the final hot topic rapid fire question. We always ask you're doing a home project, lowe's Menards Home Depot? What are you doing? Where are you going? Ace Hardware, ace Hardware, curveball.

Listen, I'm an ace guy. Those other ones overwhelm me too much. Yeah, too much. Too much stimuli, like there's 87 rows I don't know where anything's at. There's 57 screws to choose from.

I like ACE.

Instead of 57, there's only 45. And it's like the guy's going to come ask you like they're so friendly and they know what they're doing, like, they're like and they genuinely want to help you, cause I'm a bad when it comes to that stuff. So they're like hey, what do you need? Here's what I'm doing. Most of the time they can be like hey, here's what you need, here's how you do it. Boom, boom, I'm in and out, so I'm throwing you a curveball.

Finally, where can viewers find you? Are you on social media?

Yeah, well, a couple of things. So, yeah, come out, support the team. Summer camps coming up. So go to woo sportscom, backslash camps, perfect. Go on the website, go to the camps we have. I really believe this. I think we have great camps, Like we do a good job, like energy, we're going to help you get better. We're going to have a ton of fun. We we skew it by age. So if you're just learning to play basketball, you're going to have fun. If you're more advanced, we're going to, we're going to separate you so that you can be getting better and the younger ones can be getting better. So, please, if you, if you need a camp, sign up for our camps.

Uh, and what age group is that?

for Second through eighth grade boys and girls. You're too old, cool, yeah, but if you don't have that, yeah, I can, I can, we can teach it. What do you want?

to learn.

Yeah, Step back. We want to learn how to dunk. We love people coming out. My sport, football. Come support the stuff.

If you live in Topeka, man, we got a lot of great stuff, so it's something like parents can just register their kids for. Bring their kids to a camp Yep Cool. On the website.

And our guys all work them. Our players will be their coaches. I run them all. Oh dang, it's high energy. It's high energy. It's a ton of fun. Cool People come to our camps and it's a blast. So if you're looking for a summer camp, just getting into basketball or have been playing a little bit, come check us out.

Sweet Sounds good.

Thanks for joining us. Appreciate it. This was great.

I feel like we could have gone like two.