Breaking Bad or Specialty Coffee? Topeka’s Best Roaster | Jack Hishmeh

The stakes are high in any specialty market. A lot of our coffee that's on the shelves of the store is often rested for too long. There's a noticeable decay in your quality coffee.

This is sounding more and more like Breaking Bad and Walter White and it sounds a lot like drugs, but it's not. Jack Hishma, thank you for joining us today, man On Topeka Insider, Nice being here.

Yeah, thank you guys, it's my pleasure. Yeah, no, this is a joy, this is fun. I love what you guys are doing for Topeka and kind of highlighting some of our greatest people who are doing special things. Maybe not a lot of people know about, so thanks for having me.

All right, joy. Like Coffee, not a coffee shop Not yet what is joy like Not yet.

We are getting into it early.

Joy like coffee. What do you guys do? Yeah, so I started this coffee uh roastery out of my basement about two years ago and, um, I'd been into roasting. This hobby just kind of went from really diving deep into brewing coffee and trying different methods to going and getting a hive roaster. A guy named Aaron Catlin got me hooked on this hand roaster. What?

is a hive roaster.

What does that mean? It looks like a skillet with a bowl on top and it has a small hole on the top of the bowl to let the air out. But it gets pretty smoky. And I was. I was out of my basement, just kind of you circulate over a hot flame and then you have a hand. Yeah, oh, yeah, it's all by hand so I could do about four batches without like my hand wanting to fall off.

I had like friends and family asking like give me more coffee, it's so good, and I was like I can only do so much my arm's going to die, so yeah, that's kind of how I started, and then one of the only ways I could justify upgrading my roaster just because of how expensive they are was like, are we going to do a business? Because yeah, and we ended up deciding to go for it. Me and my wife Haley um tag-teamed this from the beginning and and now it's kind of more my thing now, but she still plays a a valuable role in the business and we love doing it together how long ago was that when?

you first started doing this, that was, uh, roughly like winter of 2022. Okay, can I?

just say, though, the way that you first described like yeah, you know, I got this niche hobby where I started roasting in my basement it's kind of like I had a neighbor who was growing something else in his basement and the cops would be in our neighborhood all the time and I just can't figure out why. It's kind of like the parallel version of it, it's like the legal version of that.

Yeah, I honestly like by and you have any special lamps going on.

I mean, I mean it looks shady.

I mean like I'm pretty sure I could get some fine for just doing that kind of production in my basement for a mini factory and you're legal.

I think, walter White Heisenberg, you know breaking bad, but applied to coffee.

Yeah, I do always say, I always think, like you know, if you've been sc, been scammed or like you know, people are like trying to scam you on text or call or on email, whatever, and it's like like some of these guys are such geniuses if you just apply this to a legitimate thing you'd be a millionaire because like you're so they have such ingenuity anyway.

So I mean exactly, it's cool winter. You started roasting in your basement. When did you start selling?

Yeah. So I was just kind of giving it out to friends because I just loved it. It was so fun and I couldn't drink all the coffee I was roasting and I was like experimenting with different coffees and trying to roast them to different roast levels and, like in coffee, there's this thing called a roast curve that it basically logs your rate of rise is ROR and it's like how your temperature kind of rises throughout the roast and then you're able to watch what's taking place in the drum. And so I learned all about that, picked up some books, I joined a roast coaching group that was like through one of the world's greatest roasters, scott rail, and uh learned, learned a lot about this craft and it was able to get some like active feedback and even through a zoom call live he watched me roast and and uh, yeah, it was so legit.

That is legit, that's crazy.

Yeah, so I'm like I went pretty deep really fast. Yeah, so I'm like I went pretty deep really fast and, um, and I still want to keep growing, like who never stopped learning.

But, um, I wanted to be able to kind of be comfortable with what I'm, what I'm selling people before putting it out there you know, yeah, yeah, I'm going to say I don't know what most of the words that you said in that description it meant, but it sounds sweet it sounds awesome.

All you need to know is how an athlete prepares for the olympics jack hischman prepared for roasted coffee?

all right. Well, I'll take that as a compliment, that's dope, that's dope, so your primary where?

so where are you like getting, yeah, unroasted coffee beans? Like how does that work?

yeah, so there's importers, there's farmers, and then there's like coffee hunters yeah, it sounds so shady and there's really no way around it, because it's like in the same countries that, like some of the hardest drugs, are grown.

Coffee is probably right next door, but no, but like, did you want heroin or coffee? Which one?

heroin, cocaine, coffee no, but um there, there there's multiple ways. I get a coffee from there's a importer at kansas city that they they have constant relationships with the farmers and long term we want to have direct trade, but at our size of production it's just not cost effective by a whole pallet right now.

So yeah, yeah, how long do those last? It's like, yeah, it's raw, so it probably goes bad or something.

Yeah, Green coffee can last around a year or two, but I mean your coffee professionals will notice a difference in eight months of coffee green coffee sitting on the shelf.

So like you can't roast it by hand fast enough to get through the whole palette. No, no.

I've moved out of the pan roaster now.

OK, you don't do it anymore.

No, that was like two, two and a half years ago. So yeah, that's amazing yeah.

OK, walk me through for a coffee novice myself coffee novice, you know I don't know much about much. What's the difference between buying joy like coffee versus, you know, coffee at the store or, you know, going to a coffee shop and buying coffee, you know? Is there a difference in what you guys are doing? Yes, unroasted, not roasted absolutely.

That's a great question, so. So a lot of our coffee that's on the shelves of the store is often rested for too long and that means it's either been roasted and then sat somewhere for too long. And so you check on the roast date on some of your store-bought coffee and it's three to five months prior to when you're consuming it and there's a noticeable decay in your quality of coffee. And we, we guarantee that your coffee is going to be roasted the week, within a week of you ordering it. So we were. We were promising like um that, that it was like um made made to order, and uh, like almost next day for a while and that was just not sustainable.

So we've kind of moved our guarantee to about a week. But yeah, and then also our coffees are graded, so like there's a Q grader, which basically is a person that is certified to taste and grade coffee like on a scale of 1 to 100. And all of our coffees are above 84 points, which specialty coffee is 80 and above. Wow, yeah.

This is sounding more and more like Breaking Bad in Walter.

White.

Have you seen that show?

I've seen like a few episodes, but one was the finale.

Yeah you can't claim that on air as a pastor but I've seen it. I've seen it and it sounds a lot like drugs, but it's not.

Or I mean, it sounds to me kind of like the book we were talking about with David on reasonable hospitality.

Yeah, yeah, no, I'm working my way through it right now, dude, it's so good.

It is good Like the high-end restaurant where everything is so perfect and technical.

And the ratings.

Where you have these, like very professional people who just critique and rate every, every detail of, like a restaurant's business you know I mean, it's kind of what it sounds like to me.

Yeah, I mean it, the. The stakes are high in any specialty market. I mean you, that's where your critics are going to go to, that's when your connoisseurs are going to go to, and so you have to meet that bar where the standard is, and that's a day-to-day grind. I mean, like we're constantly evaluating our, our product and making sure that it's like on my cupping table, when we taste coffees, I have typically one to two other roasters that are in our same market and we're comparing it to our coffees, and so who are, who would be like a peer company in what you're doing?

Oh yeah, there's, there's a lot. I mean, yeah, um, in in Topeka. I would say, like PTs is doing excellent, has done an excellent job, um, I've heard people generally consider their roasting to be pretty it's light.

It's light. It's also very uh, very uh. It's. It's high graded coffee, like they have some 90, 90 plus pointer coffee on their on their offer list and it's great. But like onyx coffee labs out of bentonville is another, they kind of set the bar for us, especially coffee. They really do a few, yeah, so, um, there's a multitude of other roasters that I buy from regularly.

Just to compare your stuff.

Yeah, absolutely Local coffee shops buy your coffee and roast it and serve it. Is that how that works? So they will brew it and then serve it.

Yes, so yeah, exactly, we'll roast it for them and provide them with as much as they need, keep them stocked, and then they'll brew it. And we, we, we aim to train cafes and and churches or organizations to brew our coffee the way, the way that it really brings out its potential, you know. And so, um, there, that's, that's where, like, the finished products can go to something that you put a lot of time into and then, and then the execution is not there, because sometimes, and not always sometimes it's how you brew it, and so, yeah, so is the bulk of your business is like wholesaling to these coffee shops and churches and stuff, or is it mostly individual?

Right now it's it's individuals.

It's a lot of homebrewers at home that love like specially coffee and they like variety, that love like specialty coffee and they like variety. We have a lot of people who buy espresso category coffee for us so that they can put it through their Breville machine. And yeah, that's our market right now, but we want to move into more wholesale as well.

So I feel like that'd be an easier, I guess, long term. If you had a bunch of churches and you know coffee shops yeah, you know you could have 10 customers that are constantly reordering in large quantities. Is that the right line?

of thinking yeah, oh yeah, I mean that's, that's how you do it. I mean that's a lot, of a lot of coffee roasters will just almost only wholesale and we're not quite in that boat where that's like our sole pursuit, but we hope to get into some more cafes in and outside of Topeka.

Yeah, I've seen your packaging on social media. It's awesome. Yeah, thank you.

Your branding is good, did you design that?

No, I actually worked together with a guy out of Augusta, georgia Brightcool is their name, and he, um, bright cool is their name and he, he did an awesome job and uh, he, he actually owns his own cafe and knows the coffee industry and I wanted someone that has an in in that and uh, yeah, he knocked it out of the park. We wanted to, we wanted a uh packaging design that kind of grabbed people's attention, and we also wanted to kind of be fun, make people smile, and yeah, that's kind of at the core of our company and uh, and what we want um to embody is is joy, and you think about that word and it's not like happiness is circumstantial. Joy is something that you embody in day. Uh, it's a, it's a long-term um characteristic, you know, that persists through the difficult times and the good times, and so we want to create and foster joy through our company.

Oh, that's awesome. It's incredible. So I'm new to the Topeka world. Did you grow up in Topeka? Yeah, what was it like growing up in Topeka?

Man, Topeka is a great place to grow up. I mean, Justin and I grew up kind of rubbing shoulders with each other.

We're like a year apart?

Yeah, did you guys go to school together? No, he was Topeka high, but we grew up going to fellowship together.

Yeah, yeah, it was great. I mean, uh, there's, there's a lot of great people here and um grew up. I mean we, we. I just remember like the great topeka bike race at gage park and there's like I mean all the, all the like going to gage gage park pool and I mean, and went to. I, I went to washington rule growing up and Jay Shidler kid and then transferred to Topeka high um for my high school and then, uh, went to Washburn. So I've been I have not really like lived much outside of Topeka for very long. So, um, this is, this is like my hub right now.

What'd you study at.

Washburn Coffee.

Um, actually right now, what'd you study at Washburn Coffee? Um yeah, if I saw that listing, it would have been an easy yes. Um no, I did. I did communication studies and, um yeah, so I I don't have a lot of a lot of things I remember from that degree, but a lot of great relationships, yeah, so I stayed around here, lived at a house right off campus with a good amount of guys and and went to college. Was that Washburn?

Four years. That's the best way to do it, man. That's the best way to do it. Oh yeah, oh yeah, Heck yeah, bro, I went to. Ku and I lived in a house with 10 guys. It was incredible. A little mini fraternity, that's awesome. Yeah, I had some great memories. So you grew up going to FBC because your dad is the pastor there, yeah. What up, yeah, pastors, your dad, the pastor of what is the largest church in Topeka, right yeah?

I think it is, um, well, my dad my dad is, um, probably my most influential person in my life and and, uh, a lot of pastors kids get a bad rap and like it's.

It's like everybody expects the worst stories out of pastors kids and I don't have that to bring to the table. Like, I have a dad who I go to for a lot of things still and, uh, I respect his, his advice, and I also have the more time that I've actually been at a different church, the more I respect his leadership at the church I grew up with. And I think that's a powerful thing, um, when you can kind of be removed from something and then gain appreciation for it, because I took it for granted and I just sat in service for almost 16 years just listening to my dad preach and a lot of words were kind of going through my ear because it's my dad, you know, and now I'm able to really look back and be like man he is. He is really a well, well-oiled machine when it comes to his practices and his leadership styles. So yeah.

So let me ask you this From a pastor's kid to a pastor who has kids, what—?

I'm also a pastor's kid as well. Wow, are you really? I didn't know that. Wow, that's awesome. Okay, what?

piece of advice would you give either John, as he's parenting kids, as he's a pastor, or to his kids as they're growing up. There you go.

Yeah, kids, as they're growing up, there you go. Yeah, I. I think that my church is going to be larger than your dad, so my kids are going to need the advice of you. Know what your experience is like? Oh man, that's funny. Um, cause that's really what it's all about.

Yeah, that's funny, but I think, yeah, I think that's a great question because, um, through my childhood, like I think that it was my, my parents really valued the influence of other people and other men in my lives and it wasn't really, um, my, while my dad was really invested in the church, through my childhood, like, um, his words kind of were my dad's words.

You know, it wasn't like I didn't even view him as pastor Joe it's a lot of people do you know, but it was. It was people in my life's words. You know it wasn't like I didn't even view him as Pastor Joe, as a lot of people do you know, but it was people in my life, like Kyle Brown or like I can list off like five other names of men in my life that my parents just literally let me hang out with them until sundown, and it was just those times that they were literally saying the same things my parents were. But it meant something more, because it was not my parents and and, uh, those were, those were, um, bringing out characteristics that my dad wanted to foster. But, um, it, it, just it, it, it. I think that's probably the thing I know.

I'm kind of going in a rabbit trail, but I think, I think that's the thing that I would probably say is like surround your kids by by people who are Christ-like and who who want to bring out the characteristics you want to see in your kids. Um, it goes a long way. It's great.

Okay, so that leads us into our my next question or at least Phil is saying on what you're doing now, maybe where you're headed with Joylight. Is this a part-time thing currently, or what are you doing now?

Yeah, so right now I'm in this season of transition because I've been working at a church for eight years and have kind of dabbled in coffee, about like five years ago with the roasting, and now or it was more like four years ago and now I have this just awakened passion for coffee and I want to see this business grow and I want to put the effort forth. And so, yeah, we're, we're kind of running at it. I mean, we're you're at, you're at, you're at the very growing stages of Joylight and you're kind of getting to see it at an early stage. But yeah, we're hoping that this thing can gain some traction. And yeah, I'm doing this part time. I work a few days at the church, kind of, as that transition is going on, and then also I'm working at the roastery for the other three days. And so more recently, kevin Conard has kind of come alongside me and said hey, I want to help you take this business to the next level. So he's now a business partner with me.

Oh, awesome and he has just layers and layers of experience and expertise in coffee industry Is he like a business guy from Blue Jazz.

Yeah, that's correct. Yeah.

So Blue Jazz Coffee Roaster has been in Topeka for a long time and, um, joy Light is trying to do something different and focus more on light and medium roasts. And uh, and Blue Jazz has a great niche in Topeka and and they're they're going to be two existing, two brands, um, and just me and Kevin are working together to kind of get Joy Light going as well.

So yeah, awesome.

Yeah, that's exciting.

The, the, you know your, your passion for this kind of brought in to where you're wanting to go. All in, do you feel like, which came first? Like kind of the business opportunities. The open doors were like oh wow, the business could become more. Or was it first? Hey, I'm actually really passionate about. I want to do this more with my time and energy, or was it?

kind of all at the same time. No, it was. So I, I was doing this coffee thing as more of a hobby and it was like, hey, if I can do this and make a little bit of change, that'd be great. And uh, basically pay for my hobby. And I, and then, as, as we started, we were serving at the farmer's market for two seasons and so, um, I, I just began loving it and it was like thinking of myself, talking to my wife, I'm like if we could do this and something, if we could do it and have low risk for our family and this thing, then I would, I would do it, you know. And so we were kind of primed and then, and then, uh, that was in like February.

Okay, so this year? Yeah, just this year.

And so then Kevin came along and was like I love what you're doing, um, and I think we can.

We can do this together, and and Kevin has resources available for us to be able to use, and uh, unsolicited, like he just kind of came to you and was like, hey, man, I see what you're doing and it's great, or like, did you already know him?

Oh yeah, I've known Kevin, yeah that's a good question, I've known Kevin for probably ever since we moved here, almost, yeah, and so they were part of Fellowship and I love Kevin's heart and how he's used his business to kind of give to those in need through Trash Mountain and I respect him a lot as a business owner and, yeah, he's a pretty good guitarist too.

He's a pretty good guitarist. Okay, here's my next question. You say you're just passionate about coffee. You know I get asked this about my job a lot. You know I'm not passionate about real estate. Real estate is great, you know. It's just it's the vehicle that I get to use and I, you know, I just I just love people, I love being with people, serving people, and I was definitely not going to work behind a desk. So when you say you're passionate about coffee, is that like a front for you know?

hey, this is a vehicle and.

What are you hiding? What are you hiding?

Coffee.

Yeah, no, it's a serious love for coffee. I mean like, yeah, the name Joy Light comes from literally my. It's one of the reasons I get out of bed in the morning. Let's go, it's like being able to choose what coffee I'm going to brew that morning is something I look forward to and so, yeah, so yeah, it's a real, it's a real passion. It exists. There's hard days, there's days that I'm like this is not so much a hobby, this is a job. But then there's most of my days that I'm like I love doing this. I love getting to taste coffees from around the world that are processed differently from, like some of the rarest lots in the world and some of the more standard and traditional lots, and, uh, it's, it's a joy. Yeah, it's a real joy, so that's awesome well, that might be a perfect segue.

Absolutely maybe demonstrate some passion for us, bro. Yeah, what do you?

have. I brought a coffee that has been like awesome. So there's a story how I found this coffee. I was at um, the specialty coffee expo in Chicago with few, few local Topekans David Lindy and then Caleb Falk, and they're all circle people now and, uh, we, we were on the floor and I cupped this coffee at a table and I was like that is awesome and I expected it to be like really high dollar, like way out of our range for what people are interested in Toppeka market, and it was actually in our ballpark. So I got my hands on it and it's a. It's a coffee from china.

Um, this one is a anaerobic, which means it's been fermented for like nine. This one was over here. This one, yeah, I'm gonna bring it. I'm gonna bring it over here so we can kind of see this. But, um, yeah, this one is uh, fermented for like 90 days, which is like a really long period of time for an anaerobic. Um, is coffee usually fermented? No, that's, that's like a fairly recent, within about 10 years. It's a newer process, but I can smell it from here.

Yeah, I mean like so sensory.

That's another one of my favorite things about coffee. It's like the aromas and the and the process like it slows you down in your day, right to think about something that doesn't really mean much in the in the scope of the decisions you're going to make in your day. It slows you down enough to be able to, uh, pay attention to a craft and be able to taste your result, and that's that's rewarding. That brings joy. I mean that's come on.

This is like a spiritual practice. Right here we're about to participate. It is spiritual discipline.

It's like kind of ritualistic I mean, you think about it. So yeah, we're gonna we're gonna bloom.

this is what you call, that first pour of a pour over. And, uh, when you're doing this, like the co2 is releasing and it kind of mushrooms the coffee, so it kind of lifts to the top and, yeah, so is it important.

the first pour that you're always filling it up that high.

So this, I'm actually doing a double dose so we can all share coffee, but when it's a normal dose it actually only goes about halfway up. So yeah, but you're supposed to kind of.

So I have one of these things you can sit over like a cup, like one. Yes, yes, and I'll put a little in, and but I I don't know if I'm doing it right, you, know is there a technique to like how you're supposed to pour the water in and over and stuff like that.

I mean, there's there's always techniques for that stuff, I don't. I don't. I think they're like, as long as you're wetting the whole bed of coffee, then that's what really matters the most for that first pour.

So, yeah, yeah from for someone who's passionate about coffee yeah how much coffee are you drinking?

yeah, I actually. I mean, I don't drink as much coffee as you might think like I have. I have like two cups a day and like I just get I mean how big are these?

cups I mean no, they're normal mugs but like I get one of those trucker, like the giant plastic, yeah, the ones you buy it.

We can get free refills with it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah so yeah, I drink two cups a day and if I have two, three.

But I I get pretty so you do one in the morning, one afternoon, or is?

it.

Yeah, exactly that, yeah, yeah so yeah, but I need to get more into coffee because I have developed a nasty habit of getting through my afternoons at the red bull. Okay, and it is not something I'm proud of yeah, so I'm looking forward for you to shift my passions. Yeah, something we have.

We have a few coffee converts in our in our following like I've converted some people from from like non-coffee drinkers because they just didn't like how burnt it tastes right, yeah, to being like, wow, like that coffee is different and uh, this sounds incredible.

So yeah, it's, it's that. That's what got me into coffee is like all the different flavors you're able to taste, it's not. Is we really try to roast our coffee to not to not taste the roast as much as the coffee's natural profile and so like that's, that's the job of the roaster to decide that, and so that's kind of why how we roast our coffee. Is we really try to bring out so explain that a little more so.

Like some, some roasters you're tasting more of like the cooking process or something like that like how it's so.

so there's a point in a coffee's roasting um process, in the roasting process, that a coffee loses its natural flavor due to the immense amount of heat, and you just cook the coffee.

It just kind of cooks the yeah it. Basically it cooks all the, all the natural flavors out of the coffee and then you're tasting the roast and it's maybe it's it's bitter, you know. So if you have um clear, like clean coffees or clean, uh clarity in your coffee, versus bitter, we definitely tend to go towards clarity and like sweetness and acidity is all those things play into a coffee's cup.

So yeah, OK, all right, awesome. Wow, that's wild.

We're almost there, guys, and then we'll be able to try this out.

Yeah.

That's wild.

We're almost there, guys, and then we'll be able to try this out. How many different kinds of? Is it just one kind of roast that you're selling, or do you have multiple? That's a good question, yeah we have.

We always have different offerings. We follow the seasons with most of our coffees. Like trying to get the freshest crop to people and roasting what's fresh Like. When I mean fresh, I'm saying like harvested within six months. Is is my version of fresh and that changes for everybody. But um, we also have about three coffees we will always have in stock because people like having their same cup every quarter so we, we have subscriptions available and we will do monthly or bi-weekly kind of thing.

And, yeah, our customers seem to really gravitate towards that because it's just, they don't have to think about it, right.

Yeah. So can you just explain, like, what is the life cycle of a coffee bean? Before you know, what does it take to get to this point where you're able to brew it? So it's grown in the ground, yeah, and then they. I don't know what happens.

Yeah, coffee is kind of like a shrub. It's like a large bush Like. Maybe it looks like a tree to some people, but it's like a shrub and there's multiple ways of harvesting it. A lot of lots handpick coffees, and you think about how long that takes. Is most coffee handpicked? I don't know that answer. There's a lot of mechanical harvesters nowadays, and so I don't know the answer of most coffee.

But, yeah, coffee cherries are picked and they are red or yellow or pink and those are based on the varieties of your coffee. Um, similar to how apples are food, like gala or gala apples, and you have honey crisp. You know that's the variety that's picked. And then the producer or the farmer gets to decide how he wants to process the coffee, and so your natural coffees are dried on the sun, but from the sun, or, and then your washed coffees are actually pulped and the cherry part of it, the fruit, is pulled off and then the seed, which is our coffee bean, is dried on a drying bed and has to washed. Yeah, that's a washed coffee, and so the conditions have to be right for washed coffees, um, that it can't be too humid and so there's certain regions of the world that they can't even offer washed coffees, right, or uh?

natural coffees are also hard in certain environments too. So after that's done, then they dry they. After it's completely done drying, then they run it through one more like washing cycle. They kind of get the rest of the fruit off of it. So it's a clean looking coffee bean and then it goes into a bag and then it's green. It's green, yeah. Yeah, I should have brought some, but uh, I'll um. But yeah, coffee is this greenish. It's like this greenish tan color, um, and yeah, this coffee was not green because it's fermented for like 90 days. It's almost orange.

At what point this coffee you're about to try is like orange. At what point did they wash they like strip the stuff off, dry it out and then they ferment it.

So this one, I believe, is a natural anaerobic, which means they left the fruit on the cherry and then let that ferment, so they so when?

But if it's a wash it yeah so when they what's it called? What's that one called this? Naturally this, uh, this is a natural anaerobic so they leave the cherry on there, does it eventually just like fall off, like so it dries out and the stuff falls off the seed, or do they still eventually strip it?

they strip it off but it's like it becomes brittle and so the like, the, the cherry part. It's like if you sat out a plum on your driveway on the middle of the summer, okay, then eventually that plum would be like able to be pulled right off the the seed, you know. It's kind of similar to that. So, um, we're gonna dude this is wild.

This is awesome so this has been fermented. Yes, before it was.

Then you roasted this, yes, so um exactly and let's go, yeah, that over there yeah, I can do that. Yeah, jack gets it. He knows that's right. So, yeah, there's yeah cheers, it's brighter days, right, that's right it's more joy so I'm not offended if you don't like it, it is it, it's, it's kind of its own it's its own thing different.

Yeah, yeah, so it is. Uh, it is a like this one. We would. We would say that it has kind of a chocolate liqueur, note to it, um, but it also is like very pungent and sweet, so yeah, Wow, that's amazing.

That is really good, and I'm not. I'm not a coffee guy, by any means.

I'm glad you like that man yeah, we might have another convert, for I should start keeping tally what, uh what. We might have another convert. Yeah, I should start keeping tally.

You should. What brand of creamer do you like in your coffee? Do you like the Cinnamon Toast Crunch kind? Oh man, yeah, that sounds like something up my alley.

Yeah, my wife would have stories, because we walked through the grocery store and I'm just like, oh no, what do they have now? But no, I don't know, I haven't had creamer. I like a little bit of maple syrup and some milk if the coffee pairs well with it.

But yeah, yeah, I will say we just started. We use coconut milk, okay, and so we'll, which comes in cans like the actual coconut. So we pour it in a mason jar, so it's more, so you don't have to like open a can every day, uh, and then we just started making our own syrup at home.

nice, it's like brown sugar yes, cinnamon, and then we keep it a little pour jar. I can respect that. Yeah, it's kind of our routine. I can respect that. I think like and you, I bet you're more proud of that syrup than anyone, because oh yeah, you took the time I did.

Yeah, and I did.

Yeah, and that is awesome. That's right, I like that.

Some days I overdo it and I'm like whew too much, that's too much, but you know that's awesome.

So you mentioned at the very beginning, not a coffee shop. Yet what's the five-year goal for Joylight? You're part-time. Now you have aspirations to go full-time. What's the goal?

Yeah, we're still really early in the stages of our company and also of whatever's next. But we have a vision for Joylight that is beyond just a roastery and it could be a cafe. It could be, um, something outside, maybe more nationally, like um, we want to stay in that specialty niche market, like that um can appreciate the process and the time and is willing to pay a little bit more for their coffee because it's it's not gotten cheaper to buy coffee and so, right, our prices are not going to be your folgers or maxwell house, right, but, um, yeah, so the cafe could come. Uh, we don't, we're not, we don't have anything in stone yet, but yeah, we're, we're kind of just discerning when, when the time is right and what we. We really don't want to rush that process because we it would take the right location for us to be like let's's go.

And that makes sense. I mean a specialty coffee like Joy. I mean, this isn't something that, like you know, it's me mocha latte.

That's typically what I get when I'm going.

I only typically drink coffee when I am meeting someone at a coffee shop.

So this isn't like yeah, it's our season, baby, what's that? Pumpkin spice latte? Pumpkin-sized latte, pumpkin-sized latte Yep, that's right baby.

So I mean like I wouldn't be like your target audience on something like this, but you know it's a specialty.

You know you pay a little bit more for people who really want that kind of and this happens to be like one of our cream of the crop coffees.

So we have other coffees that are like great. On espresso, thought would be like interesting and like yeah, that's cool. Well, I like it, which is I'm actually super surprised.

That's good. When I saw you bring it in, I was like, yeah, there's, we're gonna fake this. I'm drinking it, I'll finish it.

This one is pinky oh yeah oh this is an oaky, full-bodied oaky aftertaste. Who? Uh? So there's a coffee shop. It's been a long time, I can't remember the name, but they were super popular in westport, um, and I'm blanking on the name uh, monarch, no, okay, I think it was connected to like redeemer church somehow. Okay, like, maybe the guys were a part of that anyway, but they like wouldn't? They like wouldn't have like half and half or sugar, like in the shop, you know, and it's like no internet. Okay, you know, it's like you're here to enjoy a coffee and talking, that's it, you know, yeah, and uh, you know, I just thought I was like, okay, yeah, I can respect your.

Your thing is your thing yeah, I, I, I understand that that sphere and that probably works better in like a urban environment, but like we want to be an approachable brand for anybody and like all walks of coffee right right like we want.

We want anyone to come in, even if like, and have something they like. If we were to have a cafe, you know, and even on our coffee offerings on our website, where we want to have something for something that everyone would be able to actually enjoy, you know they it might not be what they expect, but we want them to find something they enjoy.

I don't want to pigeonhole you in any way or make you feel like you have to compare yourself, but I'm just, I'm trying to picture in my mind, like what you're imagining, like are there certain places like I noticed you're not using a coffee shop you're using a cafe, like are there certain places in topeka or lawrence or kansas city that you're like man, something kind of like that? Yeah is, it would be kind of sweet, you know yeah, there's.

There's a lot of coffee shops that I love and respect for their, their staff and their um vibe, and I think um, jude's and Topeka and circle and, and also in Kansas city there's some, some great shops that I love and um I, I really like um I I I can't ever remember the name, but it's where Monarch coffee was out of and it's just this really elegant looking spot that has some modernness to it but is also very approachable and like has some soft textures. I think there's a lot of routes you can go with a cafe, but like what? What I care more about is like um is first off, are are we creating an experience for people that is memorable and that they feel known and loved and maybe even walk away with a smile That'd be even better, you know. And then also like that close second is like is our product like a home run every day?

you know, because that's that's that's how my approach to roasting and like how we keep consistency and quality control and how we keep consistency and quality control. But if we were to ever do a cafe, I want that to stay the same and really have some good measures as well. But I know I've talked to cafe owners, including David Vincent, who you guys had on a couple of episodes ago and it's a grind. No pun intended, it's a grind.

It's a grind like no pun intended, right, yeah, exactly no point, it's a grind to it's a roast man to to manage staff and and keep the pistons turning.

You know I mean it is. It is not an easy task and I respect the cafe owners that do it well.

Um so, let me ask you that that gets into my next question is you know, you're kind of fresh into this in 2022. What you have? A passion for coffee. So you weren't really a business guy who were like you know what. This is what I'm going to do. You're a coffee guy who turned it into a business. What's been the hardest part about owning a business?

Yeah, yeah, man, that's. That's a good question. I think the hard, the hard part for me is I've never been a numbers guy and I'm naturally a frugal-esque kind of guy. I have pretty decent money practices, but I think the hard part is just being very detailed in your bookkeeping. I know that's probably not the answer anyone wants to grab onto, but for me that's that's the hard one and I wrestle with that and I'm trying to trying to train myself and and lean into some people that I know are better at than I am and kind of picking up words of advice and and it feels like I'm fast tracking and that's department. But that's the hard part for me right now. And then also, just like there is a, there is a layer of hustle to the business culture that is. It has has its challenges at times, you know, because you're you're thinking about your family and providing for your kids in the future.

And and uh, that's not something I've ever been accustomed to in my in my past in ministry. And now it's like, okay, we gotta, we gotta get food on the table and we gotta get things moving. And, uh, I also want to enjoy my craft and be proud of what I'm doing, and so the balance of that and not moving too fast, too quick and, um, kind of being able to embrace the moments too is a hard balance to strike.

So yeah, that's so good. You'd actually be surprised. We've had lots of business owners on this show and you'd be surprised how common that answer actually is. The hardest part about business keeping track of my accounting, my bookkeeping for tax purposes. My bookkeeping for you know tax purposes. You know business corporation stuff. It's very rarely you know actually doing the what you enjoy doing.

You know that's the reason you're in the business. It's always. It's always the things that no one really thinks about.

Yeah, it's. You know, when you own a business, you have to be super tight with your books. You have to be very diligent with you know tracking expenses and your marketing, and with you know tracking expenses and your marketing and you know making sure your budget's balanced. Just that way you know you're recording the right amount for your income on the year or what? Oh yeah yeah, yeah, and I think that's probably the biggest reason why most business owners get out of business is because, right it's not because their product sucks.

Yeah, it's because there's so much that goes into it. Yeah, that it's like I didn't know know that going on?

Yeah, there's certain. Yeah, I feel like it's always gonna bring your weakness to the forefront, whether it is, yeah, the bookkeeping or the details, or you know, for some people it's like you're a marketing guy and you're not a real estate guy, so you have to learn real estate because you're passionate about marketing. That's what brought you to the table. So, if you're you, it's like man, you're passionate about coffee. You're going to have to learn the accounting or find somebody else who can do it well, so that you don't have to.

But the business is going to need that. And yeah, I mean it's the same with me Like I got into ministry because I love people. But then, yeah, there is the administration. You have to start like planning some stuff.

Like, you got to plan ahead, you know, and that's just not my forte, and so and I think it's just like everyone has that part of their job that really stretches them and might be might be the day of the week that they don't look forward to, but it's necessary so that you can do the things you love. Absolutely, I go for it. No, no, you go.

I always tell business owners and it's a constant reminder of myself when you own a business or when you're doing something you're super passionate about as your career, it doesn't mean there aren't going to be things you hate about your job. And as a business owner, well, when you're employed, it's like if you don't like doing it too bad, your boss is telling you you got to go do this.

This is your project, this is your assignment, you're going to do it.

This is why you're getting paid, and so you know you can hate it, but you suck it up and you do it because you want to have your job. When you're a business owner, there are those same things that you don't want to do every day, but you have to do it. The problem is you don't have someone telling you you have to do this, you know this is your job.

You know you have to do it. Of times, business owners will just not do those important things or they try and outsource it when they have don't have money to do that, and I mean I. Every day there are things I don't want to do. I'm like I want to pay someone to do this have you seen we don't have the money for that.

We're doing dodgeball, the movie dodgeball, where he gets like, uh, he's getting audited and she's like, let me see your all your tax records, and he just opens a closet and all these papers fall out.

It's like that yes, that's exactly right yeah, he's like uh, is this helpful?

that's funny. Well, one of the things I love and I feel like this is one slice of like life that we're seeing is coffee like. I think we're seeing it in a lot of ways in food, in clothing, and even like certain goods that people are making where we live in such like a uh, what would be the word Like? Just like mass produced world, you know, and we're like everything's super fast, like like the McDonald's of life, where it's everything's fast, fast, fast, cheaply made goods, quick and uh, you know, this is one area I think people are trying to reclaim like, no, no, hey, we want things that are made really well. Yeah, that, and things that are made well. You can't do quick, you can't rush, and and it's like you're putting your heart and soul into this craft. And there's something you know obviously we're all christians not everyone watching this is going to be a christian, um, but there's just something like so kingdom about that.

I think of like, like you know your faith isn't just this like metaphysical, spiritual thing, like like you make things well, like do what you do well, yeah, and like put your heart and soul into it. That's important and and you know there's something about that that makes life just so much more richer and fulfilling. And you know, I mean even for people out there like you maybe you are an accountant, you know it's like man, you can do that, it's like this is your craft, you know, yeah, and I just love that man, I think more people it seems like there's at least elements of culture of the world that are swinging back that direction yeah, and trying to fight against, like even the way you just talked about like man, I just love, like it forces you to slow down and you're like man that it really is it really is like a spiritual practice, like we're gonna slow down, take a breath and just pause.

Yeah, I think for my personality that's like unconsciously what I needed in coffee, like because I am a go go go and I will stack my schedule like sky high, but, um, I, every morning I have to slow down and I, and just like you're saying, like convenience is like become the name of the game in most industries nowadays, like Amazon and Starbucks and McDonald's, and it's faster and faster and um, and I do it man, I get so annoyed when, when Amazon is like a day behind, I'm like what's your problem?

Yeah, but how about, like, we take it slower?

you know what?

I'm saying Like because, most well thought through things that are worth our consumption and worth our time and our efforts are done slowly and thoughtfully, and think through the things that you enjoy in your day through that lens and I think you'll be surprised how many things are handcrafted that actually hold value to you. And so, yeah, I'm glad you brought that up because that's something I'm exercising in my life right now, like we're as a, as a little family of of two, like we're trying to create spaces and like, almost a little time, oasis is that we can just that we can just pause and like catch up on our on ourselves and also allow there to be some some pause in our lives.

So yeah, it's so good, I mean even that's just like. That's what everyone. That's like what your house is. It's like you you get to decide, like what the culture of your house is. You get to decide. Like you don't get to decide much in this life, but you get to decide. You know.

It's like Jordan Peterson talks about like like clean your room and make your bed it kind of like that. It's like you get to decide like what is the attitude in your house? What's the environment in your house? How do people treat each other? Like what kind of stuff do you put in your house? Like what's on the walls in your house? And it's like all of those things combined you're like carving out, like this is my world, this is what life, this is what a good life is, is kind of like, and you know you don't have to have a lot of money. It's not nice things necessarily or expensive things necessarily, but it's like. It's like what you said, like are you thoughtful, is it intentional? You know, like the way you spend time with your kids and your, your marriage, and you know hobbies and your job, all of it. It's like are you thoughtful or is it just like happening to you?

Yeah, you know, yeah, exactly, and yeah, that's, that's, that's going to be the it's going to. You're going to feel like you're running against the grain when you choose that, but it's worth it. Right, and the thought and the like, building that into your family or even your, your, your day-to-day routine, is going to be worth it and you're going to see fruit on the other end of it. So yeah.

That's awesome end of it. So yeah, that's awesome, it's great. So come on, man, just some rapid fire, yeah, yeah. Well, we love to close our time with some rapid fire questions. We're asking all the guests the same exact questions. Uh, to be honest, I don't have it with me, but I think we can just go off the cuff. Yeah, so, first one, you're doing a home project lowes menards home depot. What's your go-to?

home depot has been my go-to. Let's freaking go, come on, I'm losing.

Home Depot is winning. We need a tally board. We do need a tally board. Home Depot is winning by majority.

I'm a Menards guy through and through.

I hate Menards you go into. Menards and you just think you can do anything you know you go to Menards and like a time portal it's been five hours because it takes forever to get five hours and you have a bag of cereal a new front porch door and a hammer.

You know you can get anything and it's dark out and you're depressed.

You're like why is it dark out? It was 10 am when I walked in here okay, burnett's mound, or uh shunga trails oh, I would probably say shunga trails.

I'm a bike rider. Um, it's like my fourth hobby, it's like like layered number four probably on my list of hobbies. But when I go I usually hit the trails. So, yeah, let's go. They also have a lot of good stops along the way. You can kind of, yeah, stop at the playground with your kiddos. They have a BMX track where my old stomping grounds and got a bunch of scraped up knees.

All right, really, oh yeah, I just discovered it, like last week I was like I didn't know.

This was here. I was the kid that had the Pokemon card on the back of the spindles and riding down through the BMX track with like a simulated motorbike.

Heck yeah. No, that's what I did as a kid. We used to like go to BMX, dirt tracks and stuff, but I didn. No, that's what I did as a kid. We used to like go to bmx, dirt tracks and stuff, but it was always there's one here.

It's always the pokemon energy cards that you threw away. All right, how many potholes did you hit on your way over here?

today. Oh man, innumerable. Oh man it's. It was not good. I I'm gonna probably guess like 13, 13, 20, all right wow it could have been real bad because I came. I came from here, from like southwest side, and yeah, you go through, want to make her and you're slamming. I know like that's a dozen instantly. You know my favorite.

My favorite is the uh. There's uh, I think it's topeka boulevard and 17th, the intersection. There's some of the worst potholes and there's a, there's like a car repair place right on the corner. And they have a big sign like hit a pothole, we do alignments and you're like, literally your car is parked in a pothole at the stoplight. Man, that's really good marketing yeah right out there they're probably the ones putting the potholes.

Like every time they fix it, they're probably going out with jackhammer like wow, yeah, right out by the uh stormont vale event center. That's right, it's tough. Yeah, that's fine. Yeah, all right. Follow up. Can you get anywhere in topeka without hitting construction?

yes, but it has to be strategic yeah yeah, like you cannot, like just whiff it and say I'm gonna go there, like right, yeah, yeah, exactly if, if you're not thinking or it's your first time, then probably no.

Printing out that class directions highlighting.

Are you a golfer? I'm not, so you don't have a favorite golf course. That's all right. I don't Favorite coffee shop in Topeka.

Yeah, circle is in my backyard. I'm like an alley away and I love their people. Circle is in my backyard. I'm like I'm like an alley away and I love their people.

They're just great. Yeah love that, so okay go to date night. What are you doing? Where are you stopping? Man? That's a good question.

So we like, uh, hayley and I kind of like just grabbing like something to go, maybe jong's tie or like dude, literally everybody says I. Dude, literally everybody says it is kind of a diamond in the rough man. It is awesome, I mean. And then we usually get thai or something, um, like international food.

We're all into indian food right now, so we'll go grab it and then like, eat it like on the capital lawn or something like that, and just kind of um, but yeah, that that's kind of my go-to date night like probably monsoon indian or jong's thai going out to the capital and then just maybe walking around and talking and like then maybe hitting g's on the way home is my oh, like that's my date love it, I got two more for you.

is there anything that topeka is missing? That when you think of Topeka you're like man? I wish we had this man. It can be something that's straight up from Kansas City.

I could have sworn that. I thought the same question through like a couple weeks ago and I was like man, if we only had it. I can't think of it now, but I did have. I don't think we have a Vietnamese food place here and I had some excellent Vietnamese food out of out of out of kansas city recently and I was like man, I just want to go back to kansas city now wait.

What's that? No, I think we do, we do okay what's the? What's it called? Uh, he's got no idea. No, no, no, it's on 29th and oakley, right across from dillons. What's it called? I'm pretty sure it's that's. That's going to be my stop, because it's like a pho place right? Is that Vietnamese pho?

Yeah, I think you're right. Yeah, because my wife loves it.

I'm pretty sure it's a Vietnamese place. What's it called? I can't remember what it's called.

Well, I also think another one is just like a couple good local outfitter stores that maybe are more, more for like outdoorsy or like like a sunflower good retail like that you can kind of walk and shop through and that is like kind of our lost art of shopping because of all the big like because amazon amazon yeah, but hey, um yeah, that that's those are the two things.

Um, yeah, hey, I might be stopping at being amazing it would be nice if there are more things downtown like that, just like a reason to walk around.

Well, did you see? They just are allowing common consumption in designated areas. Downtown, let's go. So some of the Pennant Iron Rail, the new taco place they have specialized cups that as long as you're drinking out of those cups, you can take it anywhere and it's allowed in any of the participating downtown restaurants.

Yeah, I didn't know you drink I haven't done it. I just saw on social media but I thought you were jesus man I do think that's a great way.

You're distracting me from my point. I think it's a great way to try and get people to walk around downtown. Is you know? If you can take your drink to go, you can walk a little bit. Go to Evergy Plaza and versus just kind of in and out.

Yeah Cause that's all I've ever done.

I kind of go into the restaurant, go back to my car and I'm out.

Well, that's kind of all there is to do yeah.

Well, yeah, I mean it's becoming, it's almost there. I think it's just a few right steps in the right direction and the right people making um their businesses, move them downtown, so yeah.

Love it. Final question for you when can our viewers and listeners find you at? Are you on social media? You got a website. Yeah, we got Instagram and Facebook.

Do I like coffee? And that's just our username for both of those. And then we have a website too JeweletteCoffeecom, and yeah.

Are you selling those hats on your website? We?

are.

Yeah, are you really?

They are available. Yeah, those are sick, hand-stitched out of a company out of Chicago. So, yeah, yeah, we have our coffees online. There's a little discount you'll get just by going on to our website. But, yeah, we'd love to meet you in your coffee journey. You might be where you're at.

Wherever you're at, yeah, You're all welcome, all right, thanks for joining us today. Appreciate it. Yeah, thank you guys. This was awesome. Yeah, this was a joy Perfect.

This was a joy.